sherryillk (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sherryillk) wrote2012-06-22 08:00 pm
sherryillk) wrote2012-06-22 08:00 pm
(no subject)
Wait a minute, is it okay to say "Oriental" in the UK?
That word has been associated with such negative connotations and has been part of my banned list of words for so long that reading it in a H/D fic was rather jarring.
I personally wouldn't want to be called Oriental. Ever. Or that my family is from the Orient. Ever. (What does that even mean?) Or anything even remotely close to that. But then again, I'm an American and I've found Americans to be more sensitive to these sort of topics. I don't necessarily find that a bad thing since I've always thought it was better to be polite rather than offensive but I know it bugs a lot of other people to have to take the time to change their behavior when they themselves don't think they're doing anything wrong. But I try since I know I would want others try to do the same for me, even if not all of them care.
But it's interesting. It's a bit like the word "quim" from a month back. Americans don't seem to find it offensive (probably because they have no idea what it means) so it gets no reactions from being uttered in a big summer blockbuster movie but would elicit gasps from a British audience. Still, it's rather dissimilar considering the fact that if you explained what "quim" meant to an American, I think most would say it was a bad word. I'm not so sure you would get the same reaction from "Oriental." Maybe, if you explained the history and the connotations the words have, you might get some understanding but from my experience, it's hard to understand and care about something that doesn't deal with you personally.
It's like when I was in high school and this one girl asked not to be called "Hispanic" rather to be known as "Latina." I'm not Hispanic or Latina, I have don't really understand the difference between the two terms other than "Latina/o" seems to be more preferable. It's partly why I've dropped the word "Hispanic" from my vocabulary since then because like I said earlier, it's better to be polite. If one person expressed the opinion that "Hispanic" was an incorrect term, then I doubt they're the only ones. And of course, I've met Latino people who don't care. Just as I'm sure there are Asian people who could care less about the word "Oriental."
So at what point do I make a big deal out of it? Do I tell people not to call me "Oriental"? Surprisingly, it still happens. Mostly with people who are of a certain age, and generally not from a typically liberal state -- the South, Midwest, those sort of places... Do I let it slide even though it does bother me? It's not like it's "chink" after all. Am I being too sensitive? Not sensitive enough? Am I failing my race if I don't think it's all that bad or are my feelings of uneasiness wrong because I'm simply been told to be more and more PC?
I wonder about these kind of things... I wish there was someone out there who can tell me how to be a good Asian. Or a good Asian American. Sometimes I wonder if I'm not just absolutely failing at it.
That word has been associated with such negative connotations and has been part of my banned list of words for so long that reading it in a H/D fic was rather jarring.
I personally wouldn't want to be called Oriental. Ever. Or that my family is from the Orient. Ever. (What does that even mean?) Or anything even remotely close to that. But then again, I'm an American and I've found Americans to be more sensitive to these sort of topics. I don't necessarily find that a bad thing since I've always thought it was better to be polite rather than offensive but I know it bugs a lot of other people to have to take the time to change their behavior when they themselves don't think they're doing anything wrong. But I try since I know I would want others try to do the same for me, even if not all of them care.
But it's interesting. It's a bit like the word "quim" from a month back. Americans don't seem to find it offensive (probably because they have no idea what it means) so it gets no reactions from being uttered in a big summer blockbuster movie but would elicit gasps from a British audience. Still, it's rather dissimilar considering the fact that if you explained what "quim" meant to an American, I think most would say it was a bad word. I'm not so sure you would get the same reaction from "Oriental." Maybe, if you explained the history and the connotations the words have, you might get some understanding but from my experience, it's hard to understand and care about something that doesn't deal with you personally.
It's like when I was in high school and this one girl asked not to be called "Hispanic" rather to be known as "Latina." I'm not Hispanic or Latina, I have don't really understand the difference between the two terms other than "Latina/o" seems to be more preferable. It's partly why I've dropped the word "Hispanic" from my vocabulary since then because like I said earlier, it's better to be polite. If one person expressed the opinion that "Hispanic" was an incorrect term, then I doubt they're the only ones. And of course, I've met Latino people who don't care. Just as I'm sure there are Asian people who could care less about the word "Oriental."
So at what point do I make a big deal out of it? Do I tell people not to call me "Oriental"? Surprisingly, it still happens. Mostly with people who are of a certain age, and generally not from a typically liberal state -- the South, Midwest, those sort of places... Do I let it slide even though it does bother me? It's not like it's "chink" after all. Am I being too sensitive? Not sensitive enough? Am I failing my race if I don't think it's all that bad or are my feelings of uneasiness wrong because I'm simply been told to be more and more PC?
I wonder about these kind of things... I wish there was someone out there who can tell me how to be a good Asian. Or a good Asian American. Sometimes I wonder if I'm not just absolutely failing at it.
no subject
*just looked up quim o.O never heard it before* I have a friend who recently was like, "Don't use the word douche!" Of which I was completely confused. (She also told my other friend not to use the word dick.) So I've been thinking about it a lot, and most cuss (forbidden) words are either sexual (which I see as the remnants of a prudish culture) or, like with chink, racial.
Um, with any thing sexual, I realized that words are only as offensive as you make them, and I don't feel particularly offended by sex, so I just see sexual cuss words as something I use when I'm mad, like emphasis.
Racial cuss words are something else... because they represent a hatred for someone for no reason at all.
That being said, for me, I feel that it's the person using that word that gives that word its offensiveness. People who use oriental to lump all asians together and make stereotypes, that's what's offensive. People who use oriental as an innocent synonym to asian, I don't find it offensive. Oriental wasn't really used in a hateful way, at least that's how I feel.
I am so, so confused over hispanic vs latino, though I have heard this before. ^^; I get a little reverse annoyed when I'm talking about my roommates, who are Mexican - they make Mexican jokes all the time (like my family making Japanese jokes), and so I've picked up on that, and sometimes I'll be talking about my roommates and say they're Mexican. And sometimes people will be like, "Don't say Mexican omg so offensive" and I'm just like..... but they're Mexican, as in, their family is from Mexico and they go there all the time. -__-
The main reason Mexican is offensive is it's used the same way oriental may have been used, to refer to all latinos as dirty, thieving gardeners (or something like that...), and it's garnered all sorts of negative connotations. I'm confused as to hispanic being negative because most of the uneducated, prejudice people I know do use Mexican to refer to latinos. It's like lumping all asians together as Chinese - many of the newer immigrants coming now are from Guatemala and El Salvador, so it's showing how ignorant the prejudice people are. (Hence my defensiveness... but my roommates really are Mexicans... just like people from Japan are Japanese... people from Canada are Canadian... I should be able to refer to them by their country of descent.) Um, if you understand the difference with hispanic, please let me know... o.O
UUMMM I guess what I'm trying ot say is ^^;; it comes down to the feelings behind the word... if you know the fanfic author was just using orient = asian, I'd just let it go. If they seem totally ignorant about asian stereotypes, then it's time to be offended. ^^;;;; Ummmmmmmmm yeah....
no subject
My problem has always been whether or not to let ignorance slide. I'm moved past thinking people are all racists because they say a certain word because a lot of time they're just ignorant rather than racist. But ignorance can only be an excuse for so long and the way I see it is that it's only allowed so long as we let them stay ignorant. If we enlighten them and they still choose to disregard it, then there's a real problem there.
I've never heard of Mexican being offensive though. It's just a nationality (and I guess a race?)... I grew up with a lot of Mexicans and only very few Latinos who weren't Mexican so maybe it's bit different here.
And I think it's different from Oriental. Oriental is generally used as an adjective, not as a noun (Oriental rug, Oriental countries) and by prescribing it to people, they're diminishing us as people. Plus, it makes very little sense since it's Eurocentric phrase. To them, Asia is to the East (the Orient), but here in the Americas? Not so much since they're to our West. So now you have a demeaning phrase that's also inaccurate. I just don't see the point of it and it bugs me. It'll bug me even if the person is using it unintentionally of its connotations. And if they do know of its connotations and are still using it, then I really wonder about that person and whether or not I can just leave in a huff because suddenly they don't seem worth my time anymore...
no subject
Hm, I never know what to do with ignorance. I like to educate people when I get the chance, but in general, the amount of ignorance on so many things is over whelming, so I usually let it slide. When it comes to fanfiction, though, I do often correct authors (not usually about things involving cuss / sexist / racist words - I can't remember a time I've seen them used), usually about cultural things they get wrong or spelling errors or if they have questions or anything. (Not all the time, it depends on what it is and if it seems like an ESL problem.) I have always been grateful when people correct me (usually about lemon-related things ^^;;) ~ it's embarrassing, but like having sauce on your cheek, you're always happier that someone pointed it out to you, then if you found out later on your own. I think you should point it out to this person, and explain it very clearly like you did here.
Maybe "Mexican" is sort of an Orange County thing...? It isn't used as a racial hate word like chink or something, but there's a lot of negative connotations that have become associated with generally calling latinos with the word "Mexicans". It's complicated because, as with my roommates, there's nothing wrong with classifying people from Mexico as Mexicans. :/ I'm never sure how to deal with it, but my roommate makes the most Mexican jokes ^^;;; ......
I didn't know that's how oriental is meant to be used. I was trying to think of when I'd last heard someone use the word oriental.... like, oriental rug seems to refer to a specific pattern of rug...? Like how China cups are referring to a certain type of ceramic (I wonder why it's called China ....). I think that's literally the only modern use of oriental I know. o.O;
Though, if someone is learning English from older literature, they can probably pick up on old ways of saying things. :/ Like in that movie, Blast from the Past, where the main character is like, "Oh hey, colored people!" in a purely innocent way.