:(

[sherryillk]

I just got admonished by a mod on the Snupin gift exchange website. How very mortifying! Someone should have told me critiques are generally considered bad form when it comes to gift fics! Why has this never come up before? If I had known, I would have been more careful! :( Gah, this has me all depressed now... T_T I don't like people thinking I did things maliciously when I was just making a comment about a story... If you state a truth about something, it doesn't really make it bad or good, right? I thought it was just constructive... Apparently not. Oh well, I'll just refrain from reviewing anything that isn't awesome anymore since apparently it's considered bad etiquette. :(

Although truthfully, this sorta sapped the joy out of things... I don't really want to leave any more comments now. Who knows what would be considered bad and get me kicked off the site? I love Snupin fics! That'll be such a crushing blow... :( Anything short of glowing has a chance of being considered critical... I went and deleted all the other reviews that I've made that weren't of me raving about the fic. *so don't want this to happen again*

*wants to crawl under a rock*

Now I'm going to be self-conscious about all the reviews I leave for the various gift exchanges going on now... I feel like someone should have posted something somewhere about not leaving constructive reviews for gift exchanges. It wasn't even a mean one and was very mild in my mind. I didn't even think anything about it... But obviously it's raised a red flag so I guess it wasn't as tame as I thought it was. :( Was this just understood? Did I miss something that said "don't say anything if you can't say anything nice, even if it's true and said neutrally"? Gah, I feel so horrible about this... T_T *totally fails*

Comments

[mahaliem.livejournal.com]

You're right - the brouhaha about criticizing gift fics was in the HP fandom. I'm not exactly sure when it started, but a few years ago the very first comment made on an excellent gift fic was filled with criticisms. Then there was what I can only describe as 'dog piling' because the majority of the next five or six comments also were critical. And this was truly a good fic. And because it was a gift fic and anonymous, the author couldn't even show up to defend her choices. Posts were made about criticizing gift fics and I think a fandom consensus was reached that it shouldn't be done.

In the hd_worldcup, the opposite fandom consensus was reached. Despite the anonymity of the authors, because it was a competition - critiques were considered to be fine. (As long as they were critiques and not flames.)

Many people ask for critiques. Many people like them. Some love them. Personally, the critiques I prefer are from my betas, who can tell me anything about the fic and that's fine because I'm asking them for advice in order to improve my writing.

If someone e-mailed me a thoughtful critique, telling me things that they've noticed I did that detracted from a story or things I neglected to do that were sorely missed - in other words, something that would actually help improve my writing ability, which as you've said should be the point of critiques, then that would be appreciated.

Unfortunately, the criticisms I've received tend to be opinion based (my version of the characters don't fit their version of the characters), a dislike of part of the plot, (it made them sad, etc. so it shouldn't have happened), or agenda based (they hate a character so why did I write that character as likable or why did I write that 'ship when I should really be writing the 'ship the commenter likes.) In other words, what I've received aren't true critiques, like you've said you write. Consequently, unlike a true critique, they won't help me improve my writing. Is it any wonder that I prefer not to receive them?

And if it ever got to the point where people felt entitled to post criticisms of my stories simply because they were posted publicly on my journal, all of my stories would end up being friends locked or extremely tightly filtered. This isn't a writing class for me. This is just me writing.

But, as I said, a lot of people welcome criticisms of their stories. I'm sure those people appreciate all of your critiques, especially as truly thoughtful and insightful comments are fairly rare.

[mithril-56.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the criticisms I've received tend to be opinion based (my version of the characters don't fit their version of the characters), a dislike of part of the plot, (it made them sad, etc. so it shouldn't have happened), or agenda based (they hate a character so why did I write that character as likable or why did I write that 'ship when I should really be writing the 'ship the commenter likes.) In other words, what I've received aren't true critiques, like you've said you write.

I agree that the above examples are *not* concrit. It would be nice if mods in comms would issue a 'welcome' post (or have a side-bar link to one) for new members that explain what the expectations are in their community for fic. They should explain what the responsibility of the writer is (in terms of filling in the feedback box appropriately) and what is expected of the reader as well. I'd do something like this:

* * *

Writers:

DO fill in the feedback section of your header appropriately. Here are some options you might want to consider:

1. Yes (you may get praise, concrit, or a mix of the two)
2. No (you should get no feedback whatsoever)
3. Tell me you love me (positive feedback only, please, no concrit/reviews)
4. Concrit via private email please (email addy: xxxxx.com)

Readers:

DO provide feedback unless none is requested. Remember that fanfic writers do not get paid for their efforts except in terms of reader feedback.

DO provide feedback only as and if requested by the writer in their story's header segment. Look at this first before posting feedback of any kind.

NEVER flame. Here are some examples and definitions for you to use:

Concrit (constructive criticism) IS:

Constructive (positive)
Specific (examples from the work given that illustrate the point)
Helpful (helps the writer improve their craft)
Tactful (not intentionally hurtful and never malicious)
Focused on grammar (spelling, punctuation, verb tense, etc.)
Focused on characters acting out of character ACCORDING TO CANON (not on personal preference)
Focused on timeline or continuity
Balanced (includes what works as well as what doesn't - encourages the writer to continue!)

Concrit IS NOT:

Vague (unspecified complaints not tied explicitly to the work under discussion)
Opinion-based (based on preferences for character behavior not canon, OTP ships, etc.)
Insulting (concrit should always be helpful - insulting comments never are)

Flames:

Flames are generally what Concrit IS NOT. See the above section to avoid flaming. Flames are NOT allowed in this comm. A first flame will result in a private notice from a mod. Additional flames may result in a ban.

Thank you for reading and adhering to this policy!

* * *

Okay, there's more to this post, but since I've exceeded the limit, I'll continue it in an additional reply below :>

[mithril-56.livejournal.com]

Part 2 of 2 (part 1 reply should be either directly or somewhere above this one):

Personally the most difficult one for me is when a good writer (has good writing skills and is capable of crafting a compelling story with good characterizations) uses characters or ships or other elements that I don't like. It's easy to avoid poorly written stories, but it's harder not to be able to enjoy well written works because you don't like one or more primary elements purely based on personal preference. I have to sigh, bite my tongue, and just move on when I see something that has Lindsey or Riley or Dawn in it, especially if they're a significant character in the story or shipped with one of the significant characters I love, because it's just not something I'll read, but that's just the way it is BECAUSE:

*Generally writers write what they enjoy, and readers find the writers that are a good fit for them, not the other way around!*

Fanfic readers generally write positive feedback to encourage the writer to continue, and sometimes in the hopes of subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) encouraging the writer to shift a bit toward what they themselves like. The first is acceptable, imo, while the second is questionable at best. It often (though not always) crosses the line from concrit into personal preference. Here's an example of where it MAY NOT cross that line:

'I love your writing! Have you ever considered writing Spangel (or Bangel, or Spuffy, or Splindsey, etc.)? I think you'd be really good at that, and that's something I'd really love to see!'

Now imo that is neither concrit nor flaming, even though it does express a personal preference, because it doesn't touch upon an actual story written. But if there's ever any doubt as to whether a comment crosses the line, I think a reader should just avoid making it on general principle.

As you can tell this is an issue that for me is sensitive but central to fanfic, and I do wish that people would think about it a bit more, both writers and readers, as well as mods, to help their communities be civil, helpful and encouraging of new writers and new works.

[mahaliem.livejournal.com]

But if there's ever any doubt as to whether a comment crosses the line, I think a reader should just avoid making it on general principle.

I agree. I also agree that communities might want to consider expounding on what is acceptable or unacceptable versus expecting everyone to know unwritten rules. It would not only help the readers, but help the writers, as well. For instance, although my hd_worldcup story was well received, I probably would have thought twice (or thrice) about joining the competition if I'd realized that criticisms might be part of the experience.

[mithril-56.livejournal.com]

I don't understand how you can have a competition involving written works without critiquing/reviewing going on. How do they determine who 'wins' if they don't do this? Isn't quality part of what is being assessed? It doesn't seem like much of a competition if that element isn't considered. I've never seen that fandom or the event, though, so don't know how they run it.

[mahaliem.livejournal.com]

It doesn't seem like much of a competition

That's the beauty of it - it isn't much of a competition. It's all a pretext for writing stories with a particular 'ship and everyone who reads that 'ship wins.

There is voting, but that's entirely anonymous and scores for individual stories and categories aren't revealed so there's no 'winning' there, either. Team standings were announced, but that was it. If you're at all interested, the voting is explained here - http://community.livejournal.com/hd_worldcup/618.html.

If it ever became a real competition, I definitely wouldn't participate.

[sherryillk.livejournal.com]

Mithril! I haven't seen you around in a while! Or so I thought until I checked your LJ because apparently I missed your last two posts. I had been a bit worried about you and I'm glad to see you're okay and still around LJ.

Anyway, I love your idea of having rules for providing feedback! It certainly helps lay down clear guidelines about what is acceptable for whole communities as well as individual authors as well. Part of my problem was that I hadn't realized the comments I had been making could be construed as being too critical of an author so I hadn't exhibited as much tact or caution in writing them. But seeing as my definition of what is acceptable in a comment has now been redefined, I'll be much more aware of it from now on. This whole mess was all my fault to begin with and I'm hopeful I'll come out of it a better person. We all must continually strive to be better, right?

For me, I feel the same way -- if there is an author or story I don't agree with or just isn't working for me, I'll leave as soon as I realize it and move on. I filter out most of the stories with summaries, warnings and pairings that I think won't agree with me so the majority of the stories I read are perfectly fine. When I do hit something that I don't generally like all that much, I try and deal with it the best I can and allow the author to try and lure me to their side. I find that when that actually does happen, it's rather glorious and while I may not be okay with it anywhere else but that one story, it still makes a great impression.

Your Most Favored was actually one of those stories for me. I don't think I'd ever read anything involving Gunn, Illryia and Wesley in sexual situations seperately much less all together at one time (also, I hadn't been a big fan of more than two people having sex) but you certainly got me convinced that it was perfectly natural. And I adore your stories so much that I still go back and reread them every couple of weeks or so. I love moments like those and it truly makes reading fanfics a wonderful experience.